Last week, I started a debate in our Sabbath School class: Was the world God made during Creation "perfect," as the lesson said, and many Adventists often do?
I suppose it depends upon what definition of "perfection" one is using. Is it possible for something to be "perfect" in stages? - i.e., perfect in each stage of development?
Certainly it is obviously true that only God is absolutely perfect in the sense of no further room for improvement. However, it could also be true that something less than God could also be "perfect" with respect to what God designed it to be at a given point in time.
Either way, I think all would agree that God did not design that anything should be evil or that any sentient being should suffer. The existence of evil and of suffering is purely the result of free choices that deviated from the original Will of God for us and for our world...
Harry i think you want to get in the mind of God .I believe that God know that man would have sin that's why he gave them free choice. example does God have to tell you don't smoke for it wii destroy you.
"Harry i think you want to get in the mind of God ."
…is a statement about what I *want*.
However, I already know what I want, and I can tell you what it is: I want a description of the world God made which agrees with the biblical facts.
I think my essay presents this.
As I state there, it is improper for Bible-believing Christians to put words into the text which are not already there.
The word "perfect" does not appear as a biblical description of the Edenic world. Because it does not, it is not biblical for Christians to describe it this way.
Harry I believe that Adam and eve were on probation .if they had obey God perfection would have been progressive . we cannot understand how sin got into lucipher. that is a mystery. I believe Ellen White is a prophetess .you are on intelligent man read her writing and you see the devil would not have given her those things to write about him.
"Harry I believe that Adam and eve were on probation ."
Because they were tested, this statement conforms with biblical facts.
"if they had obey God perfection would have been progressive ."
I believe this statement conforms with biblical facts: Development was part of the original plan, and "growth" is a recurring emphasis in the godly, spiritual life.
However, in this instance, I say, "perfection" would have been like *infinity*; continuously approached, but never reached.
"I believe Ellen White is a prophetess ."
I agree with you. However, this is really not relevant to my essay. I mention Ellen White's name thrice (3x) in the piece, and anyone's name can replace hers in this context.
"you are on intelligent man read her writing and you see the devil would not have given her those things to write about him."
I think I agree, but:
a) This doesn't mean what she wrote was necessarily correct,
b) This doesn't mean she necessarily conceived what she wrote, as Ellen White was known to widely use the writings of others, without crediting them, in her books,
and
c) I'm not clear what the relationship of your statement is to my essay.
I suppose it depends upon what definition of "perfection" one is using. Is it possible for something to be "perfect" in stages? - i.e., perfect in each stage of development?
Certainly it is obviously true that only God is absolutely perfect in the sense of no further room for improvement. However, it could also be true that something less than God could also be "perfect" with respect to what God designed it to be at a given point in time.
Either way, I think all would agree that God did not design that anything should be evil or that any sentient being should suffer. The existence of evil and of suffering is purely the result of free choices that deviated from the original Will of God for us and for our world...
Harry i think you want to get in the mind of God .I believe that God know that man would have sin that's why he gave them free choice. example does God have to tell you don't smoke for it wii destroy you.
Thank you for this response, Carmen.
Your first sentence…
"Harry i think you want to get in the mind of God ."
…is a statement about what I *want*.
However, I already know what I want, and I can tell you what it is: I want a description of the world God made which agrees with the biblical facts.
I think my essay presents this.
As I state there, it is improper for Bible-believing Christians to put words into the text which are not already there.
The word "perfect" does not appear as a biblical description of the Edenic world. Because it does not, it is not biblical for Christians to describe it this way.
What are your thoughts?
Also, I agree with the rest of your comments.
Thank you for reading my writing.
May God continue to richly bless you.
Truly,
HA
Harry I believe that Adam and eve were on probation .if they had obey God perfection would have been progressive . we cannot understand how sin got into lucipher. that is a mystery. I believe Ellen White is a prophetess .you are on intelligent man read her writing and you see the devil would not have given her those things to write about him.
Thank you, Carmen.
"Harry I believe that Adam and eve were on probation ."
Because they were tested, this statement conforms with biblical facts.
"if they had obey God perfection would have been progressive ."
I believe this statement conforms with biblical facts: Development was part of the original plan, and "growth" is a recurring emphasis in the godly, spiritual life.
However, in this instance, I say, "perfection" would have been like *infinity*; continuously approached, but never reached.
"I believe Ellen White is a prophetess ."
I agree with you. However, this is really not relevant to my essay. I mention Ellen White's name thrice (3x) in the piece, and anyone's name can replace hers in this context.
"you are on intelligent man read her writing and you see the devil would not have given her those things to write about him."
I think I agree, but:
a) This doesn't mean what she wrote was necessarily correct,
b) This doesn't mean she necessarily conceived what she wrote, as Ellen White was known to widely use the writings of others, without crediting them, in her books,
and
c) I'm not clear what the relationship of your statement is to my essay.
What is it?
Thank you for reading my writing.
May God continue to richly bless you.
Truly,
HA